In Conversation: John Cooper Clarke
Dubbed the ‘Bard of Salford’, performance-poet John Cooper Clarke first came to prominence in the late Seventies opening for seminal punk bands including The Fall, Sex Pistols, Joy Division and Buzzcocks. An unforgettable sight, black shades, winkle-picker shoes, wraith thin physique and bushel of electric-shock hair, Clarke in full flow resembled a bizarre Beatnik machine gun, rat-a-tat-tat, words ringing out like bullets, comedy, poetry and social observation all weapons in his arsenal.
A number of early Eighties recordings sought to capture the vibrancy of these live shows and though the single ‘Gimmix! Play Loud’ and subsequent album Snap, Crackle & Bop brought him greater attention it was as a live performer that he won most acclaim. Clarke faded from view somewhat in the Eighties, his stage act going on hold as he hid himself away with only Velvet Underground chanteuse Nico and a serious heroin habit for company. He broke cover in delightfully peculiar fashion in 1988 starring in a pair of Sugar Puffs adverts alongside the Honey Monster.
Clarke has enjoyed a recent resurgence, interest in him boosted in no small part by the endorsement of Arctic Monkeys’ Alex Turner, the Sheffield pup citing the punk-poet as a key inspiration for his lyrics. In the last twelve months he has collaborated with Reverend And The Makers and recreated one of his 1970s performances for the 2007 Joy Division biopic Control. Clarke has also enjoyed the honour of having his poem ‘Evidently Chickentown’ feature prominently in a key scene in Season 5 of The Sopranos. In short, John Cooper Clarke is the business. AU spoke to the “Man behind the hairstyle” ahead of his recent performance at Dublin’s Crawdaddy.
What inspired you to take those first tentative steps into the world of performance, were there other poets around when you started who inspired you?
“Not in Manchester, no, there wasn’t really a scene for it. But, it’s so long ago; I was probably being a bit of a show-off. I don’t know why I first got on stage, why does anybody do these things? I was playing Beatnik venues when I started and other poets inspired me to an extent. I started off doing some public reading, slung a few gags in and it was all very amateurish I’m sure. But back in those days there were all sorts of liberty takers getting up and performing. I watched them and thought, ‘If an audience will sit through this then why would they not listen to me?’ As luck would have it those first shows went alright.”
Listening to the records and clips from your live shows, there is a fearlessness in your performance persona – was that always the case or was that something you developed over time?
“Everybody’s got a bit of fear, do you know what I mean? The prospect of embarrassment, it’s an underlying thing. It’s not something I think about that much. I get stage fright like everybody else, but I soon get over it.”
Once you get going, you’re ok?
“Yeah, something clicks. I don’t know what that is. Some people can do it and some people can’t.”
What writers or poets were influencing you in those early years?
“The Beatniks, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, that whole scene interested me as a teenager.”
Did it take you long to find and finesse your own style?
“No, I can’t think of any conscious sort of timescale. I’m being honest with you, when you’re working with a lot of people you have to rehearse, but it’s really odd the way I rehearse. You know Robert DeNiro as Rupert Pupkin in the film The King of Comedy? Yeah, big blown up photograph of an audience on the wall and that prat telling gags – well I never did anything like that!”
The Sex Pistols, The Fall, Joy Division, Buzzcocks, you shared a stage with some of the most celebrated punk and new wave acts, did you ever find it daunting performing in front of those bands’ audiences?
“Yeah, you had to psych your game up a bit. I guess performing with the punk acts, well it was a big thing in changing the way I performed. I speeded up a bit and then it took me years to slow down again. The punk thing did affect my act at that time and also the poetry as well. I started writing more social lyrics at that point.”
Were the performances in front of punk audiences generally more confrontational and did you relish that aspect of it?
“No, I like to be listened to and for people to behave themselves and I didn’t always get that in those days, but it’s a tough one, to compete with music.”
Of course you incorporated music into what you were doing on albums like Snap, Crackle & Bop, did you yearn to be an outright rock and roll star?
“It would’ve been nice, but I mean I’m working with music again now. We’ve got a few gigs together and it’s more guitar based than it has been in the past, a bit rawer, loose and it’s just dead good. I did Glastonbury a couple of years ago and a few things like that and it’s great, but it’s also harder work.”
You must do a lot of live performances?
“Well, when I do the solo stuff, it’s kind of like second nature, I’ve been doing it for a long time and hopefully I’ve got better at it over the years.”
How has what you do evolved?
“To be honest, it’s kind of always the same, always different, I’ve got loads of new stuff, what can you say. I think now my act is much funnier and more entertaining than it used to be and that’s the main thing. People are paying in and who wants confrontation really? Anyway, now when people come to see me there’s not really a confrontational situation, people know what I do. For anyone who doesn’t know what I do, don’t be put off by the poetry aspect, it’s not what you think. The main thing is it’s fun.”
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